Pull Clarification and Promises! Promises!
Brand said something in the post over on anyway that I'm really rather thankful for:
For now, let me say that one of the things I think is going on is that everyone in the discussion is talking about pull/push on different levels. Mo was talking about it at the social level, as a rhetorical stance that people take towards the power dynamic of game. It then quickly moved into discussion of techniques and ephemera that enable such a stance, and from there into the underlying logic of game theory.
This is absolutely true. I see now where I might have contributed to the confusion between the elements up there. You see, I'm not used to talking to y'all. When something pours out of my head at Brand, where they always invariably go, he gets it, and I don't have to make strict delineations. I see why the bigger forum needs them. I might not always use your lingo, cause quite frankly it's hard to get a hold of. From what I've seen there's a lot of internal debate about the naming of things too, you can just imagine what it's like when you're just looking in the window. I hope that doesn't make you walk away - after all, just because somebody speaks a different language doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
For the record, I am interested in a lot of things about pull:
1.) I am interested in it at the social level as a viable alternative to, or married partner of push.
2.) I am interested in (some, not all) pull techniques as viable immersionist methods -- both mechanical and social level -- that may create better harmony, by providing more active, less immersion-destructive forms of authoring characters to meet the needs of the story, game or social contract.
3.) I am interested in examining current games to identify mechanics that support pull or push play, and see how using those mechanics feel different from each other.
4.) I would like to see more mechanics that support pull play in games in general to create a better balance, support those who prefer it over, or like it along with their push play. I am interested in talking about ways to accomplish this.
5.) I'm curious about the concept of seeing if an all-pull game is possible, and finding out if I'd like it or not (I suspect it would probably be not, but not as much as I would an all-push) Note: I'm not at all claiming to have the foggiest idea what an all-pull game would look like or contain, so don't rag me on it until I give some indication that I think I do.
In the previous post, I was introducing #1 in the hopes of moving toward #2 in my next post and hopefully #3-5, down the line if people were interested. - well, I think I got my answer there.
So, to that end, I'm going to start fresh tomorrow after work, and see if I can get down my next intended post that will discuss some Actual Play examples that I think are indicative of the potential of pull and talk about their effects on the games they were in.
In the meantime, go check out Brand's post: Brand Pushes and Pulls and Blows Himself Down. That should keep the discussion rolling along.